Breivik trial

Summary: Breivik is the Norwegian man who went on a killing spree last summer, killing dozens of teenagers at a liberal political camp and bombing a building. His views are somewhat Freeper-ish, and he hates Muslims and liberals. He apparently really like World of Warcraft, too.

I keep wondering how the trial would be handled if the killer shot members of a far right group instead of the Norwegian socialist elite ?
we must keep in mind Utoya Islans was a haven of socialist hatred towards Jews and an enclave for Islamists.The youngs on the Island were praisingsuicide bombers and welcoming islamist speakers with open arms.
I am not saying in anyway Breivik was right, just wondering how the media would have dealt with the case. Would they have been very sympathetic ? would they have found excuses for the killings?

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I know how someone can really get the goat of the Norwegian leftists left right now. Refer to Anders Behring Breivik as “Anders Behring Breivik Dragen”.

Breivik’s hero is Vlad Tepis, who is seen in modern Romania as a hero for defending his nation against Islamic invasion, which was utterly brutal on both sides, not just the Wallachian side.

Vlad Tepis’ father was “Vlad II Dracul”, the appellation “Dracul” meaning “Dragon”. Thus Vlad III Tepis, or as he was called posthumously, “Vlad the Impaler”, had the appellation of “Dracula”, or “Son of the Dragon”.

Thus, by calling “Anders Behring Breivik”, “Anders Behring Breivik Dragen”, the Norwegian word for dragon, it implies that, though he did not directly smite Muslims, he smote those sympathizers who wanted to overrun Norway with Muslims, to destroy its culture, and subjugate its people.

And by wiping out the socialist-communist equivalent of the Norwegian leftist Hitler Jugend, the next generation of ideologically pure international socialists, Breivik may have very well changed the course of his nation, to remain Norwegian, instead of becoming a socialist “administrative district”, full of ethnically heterogeneous “generic persons”, a weird “Marxist Islamic state”.

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"Breivik mastered all 85 levels of “World of Warcraft”."

...and had no sex life. No wonder he went a bit over the edge.

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What is the big deal? There is no death penalty and how much time can he get in Norway anyways? Do they have life imprisonment, or are they like Germany with the maximum sentence being fifteen years?

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I wonder how quickly they’ll restock that school with little freedom and liberty haters in training.

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This isn’t the first time I’ve seen some disapproving nanny-state glare thrown at [WoW]. One of the things that has to annoy party hacks and control freaks everywhere is the amount of skeptical discussions in game about political factions, ideaologies and personalities. Very unscripted, irreverent and critical. Like coffeeshops in the Islamic world, someone is going to want to shut off all that thinking and talking going on in there.

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What else should be on trial, is a society that allows camps for political indoctrination of thier youth.

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"The trial will be very interesting."

I'll bet.

If Breivik doesn't lie, is direct and doesn't rage, the lefties have a real problem.

If the Muslims that testify also tell the truth (not likely) it will be a disaster. If they aren't allowed to testify it will also be a disaster.

So basically this guy thinks that a guy who freaks out at an immigration increase and shoots a bunch of kids deserves to hear the immigrants side of the story.

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I believe that Breivik is not just sane, but that his actions were carefully and expertly planned, well executed, and importantly, achieved Breiviks goals. And in doing so, he has altered the future course of his nation.

Here is some background not widely covered by the media.

1) The Workers’ Youth League (Norway) was founded in 1927 with the merger of the Communist Youth League and Socialist Youth League of Norway. While it officially considers its founding based on the 1903 Norwegian Social-Democratic Youth League, its real impulse came in response to the formation of the Hitler Jugend in Germany, in 1922.

In all of these cases, whether communist or socialist, the purpose of these leagues was to create an ideologically pure generation to replace the current communist or socialist, socialist-fascist political leadership.

Importantly, over the course of almost 100 years, these youth leagues maintained the idealistic, ideological focus of their political movements. This is a winning strategy against conservatism in any form, because conservatives have no inflexible doctrines, and tend to use a static defense of retaining the status quo, whatever it is. Which invariably loses.

2) In modern internationalist-socialism, a primary goal is to eliminate national borders and national, cultural, and ethnic identities, as well as philosophies other than their own. To do this it encourages unrestricted immigration, on condition the immigrants give political loyalty to the left.

That the immigrants are also deeply ideological and in strong opposition to leftism is of small consequence to the left, because it sees them as inherently weak and corruptible, their ideologies far weaker than conservative nationalism.

Norway has a relatively tiny population of only 4.7m, so they are remarkably easy to infiltrate with immigrants until Norwegians are in the minority.

3) So the end result with be an absolute majority of political power for the left, the destruction of Norway as a unique nation, and the Norwegians as a unique people and culture, what remains being a “generic” administrative socialist district of Europe, lead by an ideologically pure elite of internationalists with no loyalty whatsoever to what had been Norway.

4) However, the left made a major mistake by “putting all its eggs in one basket”, with virtually its entire future generation of socialist leaders on an island with no ready means of escape.

Breivik first used a bomb to distract the socialist government, the arrived at the island to systematically kill everyone on it. Once he had achieved that goal, his mission was over and he surrendered peacefully.

5) What he achieved was to completely handicap not just that political party but their anti-Norway agenda. Almost by default, they will soon lose political power, and the more conservative opposition will derail the most destructive of their schemes, hopefully expelling a large number of these immigrants, requiring integration of the rest, restoring Norway’s national pride and culture, and to dismantle much of the socialist government’s bureaucracy.

As such, after many years, Breivik may be regarded as a national hero, though he will be bitterly vilified and cursed by the left even longer, as a “counterrevolutionary.”

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Lefties quickly learn to "work" the law, and run into problems when their opponents also learn to "work' the law.
Interestingly, although the left presents Breivik as an extreme rightist, in fact he is a nationalist, and is more socialist than not.

As in Germany, this is a fight among socialists.

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"What else should be on trial, is a society that allows camps for political indoctrination of thier youth."

So you want the government to prevent people to volunterly join groups like the boy and girl scouts, church camp??

(think before you say you want something forbiddened)

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The media and "intellectuals" have pushed the phony meme for a half Century that Fascism is from the right. In fact, it is a leftist philosophy as it's proper name, National Socialism implies. The pre war fight for control of Germany was between Communist groups having nothing to do with the right.

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I read an analysis of what Breivik did, but rewritten to put it in terms that make more sense to Americans, supposedly taking place in America.

It begins with a non-violent Muslim youth league, that over many years becomes increasingly powerful as a political movement in the US, to the point that now and then the Muslim political party has a majority in congress and even the presidency.

Their ends are to get rid of the US constitution, and replace it with Sharia law. All the while assuring non-Muslim Americans that they mean them no harm. But soon, all government largess goes to those who support Islam, and there is unrestricted immigration encouraged from every Muslim nation in the world. Hundreds of millions of Muslims coming to America.

Eventually they wish to even discard the name “America” and replace it with a Sultanate. And they train all their children in a giant, public funded madrassa, with the idea that eventually they will become the future leaders of the Sultanate. No one can become a leader in their political party unless they have graduated from this madrassa and follow precisely the agenda of the Muslim party.

Yet one non-Muslim American sees where this is going, and does not like it. He likes living in a constitutional nation. He likes his fellow Americans, but does not like endless immigration of Muslims to America.

And he knows that if he wipes out this giant madrassa, the cause of the Islamization of America will be set back perhaps a hundred years or more. It will be highly likely that the spigot of immigration will be turned off, and many of the immigrants already here will be made to leave.

He is an American version of Breivik. Is he a villain or a hero for wanting to save his nation the way it is?

This is a fair approximation of the situation in Norway. So again the question is, do the ends justify the means?

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Interesting that they are treating him so well, since his actions were the opposite of politically correct.

If it happened in the U.S., the whole liberal establishment would be bashing him non-stop as a terrible example of what vast right wing conspirators and Christian militias will do, if not prevented.

And Obama would be using him as a campaign weapon. Just like bill clinton used the OKC bombing as his winning message in 2006, even though clinton, the FBI, and the CIA were actually involved in that conspiracy.

*EDIT* Adding some more quotes:

And by wiping out the socialist-communist equivalent of the Norwegian leftist Hitler Jugend, the next generation of ideologically pure international socialists, Breivik may have very well changed the course of his nation, to remain Norwegian, instead of becoming a socialist “administrative district”, full of ethnically heterogeneous “generic persons”, a weird “Marxist Islamic state”’

....?????? Sorry, but are you actually trying in some way to justify or make excuses for what this man did? That may not be your intention (I’d certainly hope not) but it sure as hell reads like it, with the above comment and your recommendations for people to add referential honorifics to his name.

This is a terrorist who planted an indiscriminate mass car-bomb in a crowded city center, then systematically massacred 69 kids (and yes they were largely 14-18 years old: that makes them kids in my book) because of his warped, twisted and in all probability insane views. If you find anything to praise, respect or admire in that, then I’m desperately sorry for you, and you need help.

This has and had nothing to do with ‘changing the course of a nation’ or of a valid political viewpoint, even one taken to extremes: it was mass-murder and terrorism, pure and simple. Whether the kids Breivik massacred were socialists, fascists, communists or followers of the flying spaghetti-monster has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. We don’t murder teenage kids in this country on the basis of their (or more likely, their parents’) political affiliations, nor do we make excuses for those who do. I believe, in general, we give them the needle.

If such viewpoints are accepted and acceptable on this site, then I’m clearly in the wrong place, and happy to leave. I’m a proud conversative, not an apologist for mass-murderers and terrorists.

Response:Your arguments are typical, and to be expected in a reasonable situation, but this is an extraordinary situation.

I cited the Hitler Jugend (1922) for a very good reason, this being that the AUF Workers’ Youth League (Norway) was created as a socialist-communist merger just five years later (1927), to accomplish similar political goals as the Hitler Jugend. That being the socialist-communist agenda, instead of the fascist agenda.

> “Whether the kids Breivik massacred were socialists,
> fascists, communists or followers of the flying spaghetti
> monster has absolutely no relevance whatsoever.”

In the case of fascists, the Hitler Jugend were trained to be militarily aggressive, to conquer other countries and exterminate the ‘inferior’ peoples within. Those male “kids” at age 17 would be inducted most likely into the Waffen or General Schutzstaffel, to commit horrific acts, or they were to become the next generation of government to promulgate and manage such acts.

They were not “just children”, but raised and indoctrinated to be sociopaths.

I have met older adults who had been members of the Hitler Jugend, and every one of them were still proud of that membership, and had every intention of doing those things when they were of age. They still carried within themselves the desire for racial purity, antisemitism, and military aggression.

But what about the AUF? The Workers’ Youth League of Norway? While not as direct and brutal as fascists, they were just as indoctrinated and ruthless in carrying out the goals of international socialist-communism. As such, they actively worked to destroy their own nation, and to wipe out Norwegians as a people. That this was to be done with gradualism, using democracy as a subterfuge, the end result would be the same.

Does it matter to a person if they are killed by being bashed on the head with a baseball bat, or they are slowly poisoned over the course of a week with good tasting food?

In either case they are dead, and in either case they have been murdered, and in either case, the murderer wins.

I have met so many people that have lived under socialist-communist regimes, which they have described as like living with cancer. It eats away at your substance, taking away your prosperity, your health, your happiness, and eventually your life.

They have perfected their twisted faith, to corrupt, distort, steal, pollute (physically they are an environmental catastrophe), and take away the joy of others. That we have the ability to reject them for now is good, for now, but they are persistent. Like Islamists, they have complete faith that they will conquer, that all people will eventually be under their sway.

Though I agree that Breivik does not really deserve accolades, he did see himself as in a role like Vlad Tepis, defending his nation against Islamic conquest. Yet not acting directly against Muslims, but against those who wished to destroy his nation by inviting unlimited numbers of Muslims across the threshold.

You may be horrified that they were “just kids”, but had these “kids” become adults, his nation would likely have been forfeit. All that Norway is and was, and the Norwegian people themselves, would have been swept away as detritus before “the cause”.

Would you be willing to lose your nation, your people, and your history, just because they stood in the way of those that wished to supplant them?